Thảo luận Thành viên:Savh

Hi

I ask you with my respect to not interfere with our Vietnamese Wiktionary. We, the Vietnamese people, for thousands of years hate to rely on foreigners. We want to be able to take care of our own internal atmosphere. Any actions must be taken here are for vi sysops to take care of, there is no need for others to do it. I know you have good intention but we simply don't need it and we can do it by ourselves. So please respect the Vietnamese tradition, just don't take any action here.Trongphu (thảo luận) 21:00, ngày 27 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

I am sorry this annoys you, and that you even hate to recive help from foreigners. The SWMT offers a helping hand on small wikis, and forbidding foreigners to edit a wiki goes completely against the Wiki spirit, where anyone can and should edit whatever he wants, as long as it is correct. My revert, which is NOT an admin action, is just a simple edit, reverting a cross-wiki vandal.

I will continue editing and reverting, just as any other contributor would do (Sysops are not the only ones that can edit). I respect local communities, but this tradition is not acceptable on any Wiki, and let alone a Wikimedia Wiki. Savh (thảo luận) 12:19, ngày 28 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

You're right that sysops are not the only ones that can edit. Most contributors don't go around revert vandalism. That's not what their task is, they can help out sure. You're also right that I hate to receive help from others if I can do it. Same thing apply to real life not just on Wiki. Plus the main point here is you are not a Vietnamese, are you? Since you are a foreigner as whom we perceived, I (not just me, generally Vietnamese people don't like that either) don't like to receive help from foreigner if we can do it. If we can't do it then it will be a different situation then we will let others help us (but the case where we need help is very rare, almost never happen in Vietnamese history). I don't care you accepted our tradition or not. This is our project and I think we can decide what to do with it. I remember that there is a policy that Glogal Sysop is not supposed to interfere with the local wiki unless there is no one else to do it. The tradition itself is not a rule on Wikipedia, that's why it's called "tradition". People have a choice to follow tradition or not. It's like you can choose to believe in religion or atheism. The SWMT is for those wikis that don't have any user to take care of and they can't do it by themselves, that's why they need help. I'm not forbidding anyone from making useful contribution to Wiki. You're welcome to add "contents" to this Vi Wiktionary but revert vandalism should be left for Vietnamese people to do it. We are should be the one who protect our own place, just like our own nation. Like an analogy, you probably heard of "don't get into my business". It's not just me, it's almost everyone's tendency that doesn't like others to get interfere with their business (other word their own stuffs). That tendency is especially stronger in nations like China, Vietnam, Japan... We value our own accomplishments more than anything. We try to do everything by ourselves but of course it's not realistic to do everything by ourselves. At least we try to, as long as it's in our capacity, we like to do it by our own. It's pretty complicated issue, involving national pride, national honor... You can as well say that I'm exaggerating things. Well maybe a little bit but it's true. Other Vietnamese would agree with me. Before you, there were a couple of users just like you that came here reverting, deleting things. I talked to them and they were pretty much get out of the way.

Wiki spirit has its limit, just like anything else. When something crosses a line, it got to stop. I like to collaborate for a greater good of all but this is not anything that "needs" collaboration. When we "need" to collaborate to make things better then we do, when we don't then we are each on our own. It's that simple. Notice the word "need". I don't do things that is not "needed". It's all about necessity not desire. Wikipedia also sets a limit on freedom of speech, I'm a good example of a victim of it.

Talking about cross-wiki collaboration, sound like a great idea but doesn't work well in reality due to cultural difference. I, myself, experienced the worst moment of my life. I have never vandal once in my 4 years in Vi Wikipedia, Wiktionary. I came to English Wikipedia at one point and get tangle myself into a big mess. Slowly excellerate into my block and finally permanently block. Believe me, I have involved into countless discussions and use words I used just like that in Vi Wikipedia. I never get a single block but in English Wikipedia, I got 3 blocks and 1 permanently one. I didn't start to use accusing people of things until "after" my first block. They started it. Finally because of what I said due to their initial block... That's what I got for trying to contribute to English Wikipedia. I learn a big lesson from that. Don't talk like Wiki spirit is that great because it's not. I didn't see any Wiki spirit when I got blocked. 4 years working in Vietnamese without any problem, few months working with English Wikipedia = permanent block. That being said about the result of collaboration. I hate to receive help from outsiders is not because I got blocked at English Wikipedia. It is how I always have been. That's what I was being taught at school when I was living in Vietnam. Currently, I'm learning Spanish and Spain's cultures. They are pretty interesting.

Bottom line, if you wish to continue then go head. There is nothing I can do to stop you, it's outside of my power. I'm just saying that if you wish to respect other culture tradition then don't do anything here. If not then it's up to you. If you want to do extra work and annoy other people then do it. I believe in completely freedom but there always be limit. In daily real life, I would tell others who interfere into my business (business here means my own stuff) the same thing. That's what the idea independent is all about, that's why Vietnam wanted independent. That's why there was American revolution... As the wise man would say: "The choice is yours."Trongphu (thảo luận) 23:37, ngày 28 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

Well, if there is nothing you can do, and this tradition of discrimination based on origin is just an attempt of fake control which you quite aggressively portray on my talk page ("Any actions [reverts, edits, undo's] must be taken here are for vi sysops to take care of, there is no need for others to do it.", "I ask you with my respect to not interfere...", "...just don't take any action here." keeping in mind you are referring to a single undo on a wiki), please refrain from attacking other users with this tradition on a Wikimedia Wiki, as it goes against WMF policy. I, as a GS, fully respect local sysops to take sysop actions, but reverting is not one of those. The wiki spirit is the basis on which the whole of Wikimedia is founded, and if you claim that the fact that anyone can edit is not the main reason for success of Wikimedia, then please do something else than editing a Wiki. Reverting a random vandal is in no form comparable to political interference, or militarily defending a nation, instead please remember this is just a WIKI. This is the first time I am requested not to revert blatant vandalism, and I have reverted in quite a number of wikis correctly. I have edited across more than 475 wikis, and have had very few problems, none of which related to cultural differences up to now. As such, I can safely assume it does work in reality, and the problems (In your case, blocks) are not due to cultural differences. On enwiki, for example, most of the users are nor British nor American, and they still manage to keep the wiki up nevertheless. You personally being a victim of enwiki is not either a reason for which foreigners should not be allowed to help here. In my place of origin, it is extremely unpolite to say you hate the help of someone who is attempting to help you, but I do not forbid it, nor do I treat it as a policy on my home wiki.
We are, after all, volunteers, and have no intention of interfering, but just of helping with something that we can all do, which is part of the wiki system. I am not interfering with YOUR business, this is a public wiki which anyone can edit. Kindly refrain from supporting this alleged tradition, which goes against the Wiki spirit and WMF policy. Savh (thảo luận) 23:01, ngày 29 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

Please see my comments here. – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 08:43, ngày 30 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

I'm not attacking you, please don't take things too sensitive. I never talk anything that that direct to you. What do you mean by "fake"? Nothing I said is fake here. What I mean by any actions must be taken by vi sysops are admin actions. And vandalism should be leave for all Vietnamese users. Your example is false, most of enwikipedia users are indeed are Americans and British, my definition of most is that it's more than half. When did I claim "the fact that anyone can edit is not the main reason for success of Wikimedia"? Everyone can edit is good but I don't believe in foreigners help like German help French wiki or American help Chinese wiki... It's best that everyone edit in what language they know. You're right that this is simply just a WIKI but the users have their own values of where they come from. Most of us are Vietnamese so we believe in whatever we want, there is nothing you can do to change it. My blocks in enwiki are due to cultural differences, I don't care what do you think of it but to me it is abusive power from English Wikipedia sysops and not respect other culture. I told you, I have been user in Vietnamese Wikipedia for over 4 years. I have been in A LOT more intense debate in Vietnamese Wikipedia and I NEVER get a single block. I was involved in maybe 3 debates in enwiki and ended up permanently block. Please remember that I don't change the way I discuss whether I'm at enwiki or viwiki. I'm the SAME across the board so why is there such a big difference? 3 debates = 4 blocks with 1 permanently in enwiki compare to over 100 debates = 0 block in viwiki. There are 2 possibilities, either that Vietnamese tolerant more or enwiki is very abusive and disrespect other cultures. And don't forget that I have never made a single vandalism. My main reason for my blocks are mainly from what I said. They blocked me for calling them racists, liers, dictators... Oh and I didn't start to call them so after they blocked me for the first time. My first block is clearly abusive. They just disagreed with I said and they blocked me to shut me up. They started it first not me. Tell you what, if I would have said the same thing in viwiki. I WOULD NOT get block. So I've proven to you a HUGE difference there is between culture across different wiki languages. I'm supporting my tradition that doesn't mean I will do something to stop you from editing here. I've made it clear before that you CAN do it if you want to but I just don't want it. There's a big difference between what I want and what I do.Trongphu (thảo luận) 22:52, ngày 30 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

Plus I think you made a big mistake when you said our tradition is discriminating base on origin. Discrimination never actually happen in Vietnam as far as what I know. It happened quite often in America back in early 20th century. We (I would say "we" here imply most Vietnamese. Some Vietnamese simply don't care or want help from foreigners) don't like receiving help from foreigners that doesn't make us discriminators. Don't get me wrong, tell you what. I'm currently living in the US and I have many more White Americans friends than Asian friends. I hang out with everyone regardless race, sex, nationality, religion, origin... There is a big difference that you need to see between "receiving help" and "getting along with others". I hate receiving help but I love getting along or hang out with everyone.Trongphu (thảo luận) 23:11, ngày 30 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

As for the part that you did not attack me, you actually did; claiming that because I was a foreigner, I should not do any edit/action here. This is a discriminatory attack on my origin, and as such an attack on me. This kind of discrimination is not allowed by the WMF, as proven in the policy I linked above which forms part of Wikimedia's terms of use.  

As for your tradition, I have no opinion. However, the fact that you hate to receive help from some people, just because they are not of the same nationality as you are, is discriminatory. ("Plus the main point here is you are not a Vietnamese") "I hate to receive help from others if I can do it." This is what all wikis are built on, helping each other. One user can not build up a whole wiki by himself, take care of everything. If I revert a vandal, it removes the possibility that the vandalism goes by unnoticed, and it saves other people work. ("What they help us, we or I can do in 1 minute.") This generalisation is dangerous. I spend a lot of time helping across various wikis and this is the thanks I get.

However, you seem to get various things mixed up when discussing this. I don't care about what happened in the Vietnam war, nor was my country nor was I an involved party. I don't care either about your block on enwiki, though I know there are various non-abusive ways of trying to have it lifted, and I have the impression it affects this discussion far more than it ought to do. I am neither an admin at enwiki, nor am I involved in their policies, nor had I anything to do with your discussions over there. They do, however, respect Wikimedia's terms of use allowing anybody to edit, as proven by the link you kindly provided, and I personally know quite a few admins who are not European or American. I don't care either for what happened in the 20th century America nor Vietnam, though I know that racial discrimination was common at the time, and it is anti-constitutional now. I don't care about the discussions you were involved in on enwiki. I don't care whether Vietnam won a war with no external help. I just don't don't care about all this business that is not related to Wikimedia, and more specifically, to this editing limitation, in any way. 

I, on the other hand, have never insulted anybody. I have never called somebody a dictator. I have never called somebody a liar. I have contributed on a few hundred wikis and have never been deemed unhelpful, up to now. If I would call somebody a dictator, a liar, or anything similar, I would understand I'd be blocked. These attacks are unacceptable in a collaborative project as our projects are. You clearly did not prove your point by insulting them. ("They blocked me for calling them racists, liers, dictators... Oh and I didn't start to call them so after they blocked me for the first time.") Would you not block me if I told you you are a dictator? (note: I am not saying you are a dictator, I'm just giving an example) Cultural difference when rollbacking obvious cross-wiki vandalism is not that different on a WIKI, where everyone helps to build and maintain the project, as long as they HELP. Without help, with discrimination based on origin, you can not build such a project.

Anyway, coming back to the topic, I get a message from you claiming it to be unpolite to edit this wiki. As from your writing style, it looks as if I have commited a serious mistake and violated a policy. However, such policy does not exist and is based on your personal interpretation. This wiki, even though it is in Vietnamese, is hosted by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, and any user contributing has to accept the WMF's terms of use. Wikimedia's global policies clearly go against what you claim to be current practice on this project, basing your argumentation on a cultural reason. These policies can't be overturned by local policies, however, this local policy does not seem to exist and to be honest, I have only seen this rule being enforced by you; on my talk page and here again. 

This is not your wiki, nor is it the Vietnamese's people wiki, nor is it Jimbo Wales' wiki. This is a Wikimedia Foundation wiki, and my main goal as a volunteer is to keep it clean, by fighting vandalism. The foundation's main goal is to allow the free spread of information. My main goal is not, contrary to what you may think, to disrespect local policies, manipulate local communities, interfere with admin tasks, disrupt, insult, annoy, harrass or anything whatsoever. I am not here in the name of enwiki either, and I should, therefore, not be lectured on their implied "abusive" blocks. I try to help, nothing more, and I am convinced that by removing spam and vandalism I do.

As for your administrator rights, you have not abused them in the literal meaning of the word. It seems you have the impression it gives you some sort of status, which it does not. You are not above the community, you are just entitled to help them a bit more, but you have no right whatsoever to request all foreigners not to edit, based on your personal view. You have provided no link to any policy, and assumed it was common knowledge only vietnamese people were allowed to edit. As for your argumentation, you have referred to a block to which none of the users you messaged had anything to do with, clearly proving you involve your personal matters into this discussion. ("I'm a good example of a victim of it.") Your comments seriously discourage (foreing) editors from participating and helping, which seems to be your main purpose, and this is obviously not in the WMF's nor in the wiki's benefit. ("I talked to them and they were pretty much get out of the way.") This going against Wikimedia policies is not reccomended for admins, nor are the agressive discriminatory messagges.

You should, in future, take special care when using the plural form, as this can easily be misinterpretated. "We, the Vietnamese people, for thousands of years hate to rely on foreigners." This sentence is based on a general, unreferenced and, written in plural, is made to give the impression this is a policy, which you have not proven. "Just don't take any action here" This is not a question either, but a command. Later on you make clear that it is your interpretation, though this is not at all illustrated by your original message. "This is our project and I think we can decide what to do with it." This is, as per the links and comments I provided, blatantly wrong. This wiktionary is nobody's project, except maybe the Foundation's. "It's not just me, it's almost everyone's tendency that doesn't like others to get interfere with their business" I honestly don't have this impression, as far as I can see, you're the only one whom I have seen enforcing this rule on talkpages. "I don't do things that is not "needed"." I guess going around telling people not to edit is not needed either.

As for the rest of the discussion, I would kindly ask you not to refer to any possible irrelevant real-life situation, or anything related to your block on enwiki, as this is not at all related to this project, nor to this editing limitation you are imposing on foreign editors. I guess your point would also be a lot clearer if you would not surround it by such unrelated comments. If you consider it abusive that they discriminate because of your race, don't you think it is also abusive that you currently discriminate to us because of my nationality? I am not implying anything, but trying to get you to understand the other side of it. Savh (thảo luận) 18:49, ngày 31 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

Savh, maybe you should just respect their culture. Otherwise, this will become a useless, heated debate. Besides, I'm sure they can handle it. PiRSquared17 (thảo luận) 22:14, ngày 31 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

The fact that I don't like foreign help is NOT a rule nor is it Wiki policy nor is it a policy in Vietnam. I never said it was anything like that. I have told you that it is NOT a rule or policy, it is NOT mandatory to follow. It's a tradition. Everyone has a right to follow tradition or not, it's up to everyone of us. I never said you have violated any sort of policy. My real life situation is totally relevant regarding the issue we're discussing. here is an example of Vietnamese news referencing about tradition of self-reliance, independence (you should use google translate). "We, the Vietnamese people, for thousands of years hate to rely on foreigners." This is NOT a policy, it's a tradition like I told you many times. If you go to Vietnamese schools in Vietnam, they will teach you how proud a Vietnamese is to never rely much on foreigner. It's like a national pride, an example they would consistently tell you in class is that Vietnamese won the Vietnam war without much military help compare to the South. I'm trying to tell you that this is what most Vietnameses would believe in. "Wikimedia's global policies clearly go against what you claim to be current practice on this project, basing your argumentation on a cultural reason." There is no current practice against foreigner here. It's not like we block foreigners from editing. You or any other foreigners can choose to edit if you want to. There aren't many users around in Vi Wiktionary except me and few others. Even in Vi Wikipedia, user numbers can be up to 100 but that is just 100 Vietnamese out of 90 million Vietnamese in Vietnam. Many of them not going to tell you in directly but they probably don't like foreign intervention either.

I also have said earlier that this has nothing to do with my personal matter in enwiki. I have always believe that way. I brought that up to show that collaboration isn't working that well as you think. As for the matter of fact, you are indeed foreigner to Vietnamese.

I didn't limit you to edit. If I would have limit you, I would have block you which I didn't. I told you what I think and let you decide on what to do. Simple as that. "however, this local policy does not seem to exist and to be honest, I have only seen this rule being enforced by you" Again this is NOT a policy but a tradition and of course such a policy doesn't exist. And I'm not enforcing it, enforcement would be blocking foreigners from editing.

"As for your administrator rights, you have not abused them in the literal meaning of the word. It seems you have the impression it gives you some sort of status, which it does not." This is so wrong. I have no impression of such a sysop status. To me sysops are people with the mops. I believe sysops are to serve the community better but not to have any better privilege. I never said I'm above the community, did I? I agree with Jimmy Wales statement that "sysops are no big deal". I consider sysops or bureaucrat as regular user, nothing more! "you have no right whatsoever to request all foreigners not to edit, based on your personal view." You maybe right that I have no right to request all foreigners doing something but I do have a right of saying what I believe. And it's UP TO YOU to listen to it or not. "You have provided no link to any policy, and assumed it was common knowledge only vietnamese people were allowed to edit." Again it is NOT a policy so there will not be any link. It is not a common language but a tradition. People have option to follow it or not. Everyone is allowed to edit but I simply don't like foreigners edit but I won't do anything to stop foreigners from editing.

"You clearly did not prove your point by insulting them. ("They blocked me for calling them racists, liers, dictators... Oh and I didn't start to call them so after they blocked me for the first time.")" They clearly provoke me first! I have proven my point that en sysops are abusing their power unlike vi sysops (not just me but many other vi sysops). "If I would call somebody a dictator, a liar, or anything similar, I would understand I'd be blocked." This is not true in Vi Wikipedia. You will not be block if you say anything like that. Especially if someone block you in the first place without any valid reason then you can go head and call them dictator. When that happen I'm pretty sure there will be some reasonable sysops show up and solving the issue. There is no way any user end up with permanent block because they just say something. In Vietnam, because in real life we don't have much freedom of speech so we want the best freedom of speech on our life on social media. Vietnamese people have high tolerant of speech. Insult would be something like saying "fuck you" (example). You can call someone liar, dictator, racist without being block in Vietnam but if you say fuck you then you probably will get block.

To answer your question: "Would you not block me if I told you you are a dictator?" NO. I would disagree with you though. If you continue to do it for a while then I will just ignore you. And if you keep spamming it on my talk page then I will have to block you for a week or so (imaginative situation). So as long as spamming continue I will block for 1 or 2 weeks every time. For me, I have higher tolerance than most people I know. If it's not spamming then I'm pretty much tolerant anything even the worst insult. They can say "fuck me, pussy, fking stupid, idiot, dumb ass..." As long as it's not spamming continuously on some pages then I will not mind, I simply don't care. I can just ignore them.

"If you consider it abusive that they discriminate because of your race, don't you think it is also abusive that you currently discriminate to us because of my nationality? I am not implying anything, but trying to get you to understand the other side of it." Finally, you actually made a good point there. I don't view myself as abusive as en wiki sysops. They are a lot more abusive than I am. I never try to be abusive, I hate abusive people the most. What happen to me in enwiki and what happen here are somewhat different. Enwiki sysops actually taking action against me when I refused to act the way they want me to. If you refused to do what I said, then NOTHING would happen to you. NOTHING! This conversation can be done right here, there is no reason to continue this wasting time conversation. Go ahead and edit anything as you wish. I don't like it but I won't take any action against it. And don't forget that I never and will never force any one including foreigners to not edit here. Even though I ask them nicely enough first but if they choose to do it then go head! Nothing will stop any foreigners from editing. (I'm getting very repetitive here, I know I have said this many times but I want to make sure I get my point across!)

You are actually considerably better than those abusive sysops I met in enwiki. At least you make some senses and seem like a reasonable person. I don't know why I have so much problems with receiving help from foreigners. Part of it is like I said, I have grew up learning that at school (maybe I have been brainwashed a bit). Part of it is I feel like as a Vietnamese, I like to accomplish things without getting help. It's just me. Again you don't have to follow what I believe. Do as you wish, I strongly believe in freedom of speech and freedom of action as long as your action doesn't hurt anyone. Lastly, I'm sure you have good intention and I appreciate your good intention as much as I appreciate your dedication to Wikimedia as the whole. After all, I don't think any help is needed. Trongphu (thảo luận) 23:48, ngày 31 tháng 1 năm 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your sincerity. Since you are not taking any actions to prevent me or other foreign editors not to edit, also simply do not leave them such an agressive message on their respective talk pages as you did in the first instance on mine, where you claimed that all actions (ie. edits, reverts) were to be done by vi.wiki sysops. Do not send messages as if it is a policy, since it is only your personal wish. Insisting in sending those messages, which are intended to "get [them, foreigners] out of the way", goes against WMF policy of discrimination, as you try to force non-Vietnamese to abandon this project. You can not do that, even if it is a personal request, even if you are not going to enforce it with a block. Savh (thảo luận) 16:57, ngày 1 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

I didn't think I was aggressive. I was asking nicely with respect. "all actions (ie. edits, reverts) were to be done by vi.wiki sysops." Nope that was not my claim. My claim was all admin actions should be done by vi sysops and all edits should be done by Vietnamese users. I DID NOT force any non-Vietnamese to abandon this project. "Force" would mean I block them if they don't leave. I think you get confused of some words. All I did is ask and it's up to them to do or not. It goes against the policy if I block them from editing but it doesn't goes against the policy if someone is willing to not edit. It's their choice and no one should intervene. It's like it's your choice to keep making edits here. It's all about freedom here. I value freedom the most.Trongphu (thảo luận) 23:30, ngày 1 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

Message for Savh, I'm tired of this pointless discussion. You're welcome to edit here like I said in the beginning even though I don't like it. This pointless discussion can be done here, I don't want to participate in this discussion anymore. Just do whatever you want, no one is going to stop you, don't worry.Trongphu (thảo luận) 22:36, ngày 2 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for my interruption. I am also Vietnamese. I confirm definitely that Vietnamese people don't have any traditions that prevent the help from foreigners. This is really ridiculous mind and does not represent for the rest of Vietnamese. Nobody can prevent the permissions of editing in Wikipedia projects. So I support you. Have a nice day! Alphama (thảo luận) 12:09, ngày 2 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

I don't think your opinion represent the rest of Vietnamese people either. Alphama, maybe you get confused between the wording here. We, Vietnamese, DO NOT prevent anyone from helping us. Some of us simply just don't like receiving help from foreigners. I thought you learn that from school also.Trongphu (thảo luận) 22:34, ngày 2 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

I have never learnt that lesson before in my life. So pls try to be nice with everybody. You are really troublemarker now. Stop it before too late. Young boy! Alphama (thảo luận) 23:20, ngày 2 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

Stop accusing of me of not being nice. I'm being nice right now. This issue is over before you started to talk here. We got over it. Savh and any other foreigners can edit as they wish. Trongphu (thảo luận) 23:25, ngày 2 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

Hi Savh, to me I don't find any problems to receive help from you or other global sysops. I just wonder if this wiki seems to receive much help than mine (Vietnamese Wikibooks). You know sometimes there are bad edits there which will last for months without anyone correcting since only me and a couple of guys active there. If you like, please keep a bigger eye on Vietnamese Wikibooks. Thank you (and I appreciate that very much :) AmieKim (thảo luận) 07:57, ngày 6 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Per an indisputably Vietnamese tradition, I wish you a happy and hopefully less confrontational Year of the Snake! – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 11:24, ngày 12 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)

Thanks & the same to you too! Savh (thảo luận) 15:34, ngày 12 tháng 2 năm 2013 (UTC)